Pugs Fail

Second Dirt:

I had a superb three hour trail ride in all conditions today.  Here are a few thoughts few conclusions.  Caveat:  Forget about flotation, this is a review of the Pugsley as a trail bike.  Excellence in the areas requiring flotation is a given, but that is not what I use this bike for.

Adding air to the Endo did little to improve its marginal climbing traction.  No big deal for seated low gear climbing if I kept my weight on it.  It would suck as a single speed tire for my conditions.

I was pleasantly surprised to hear a sound reminiscent of the original Enterprise's warp drive while rolling fast on a short paved section.

Climbing this thing is glacial.  The rotational weight is immense.  I had not measured the weight, so I did tonight post ride compared to my usual rigid set up:

Front Pugsley (Surly hub, Large Marge DH, Surly Toob Larry, 160 rotor) = 8.3lbs(3790gm)

Front Jones (Fatback 135 hub, Flow, Bonti FR3 tubeless) = 4.7lbs(2130gm)

For comparison, I just got a Fat Front Jones (Fatback 135, LM DH, Larry, Bonti 2.5 tube) = 7.4 lbs (3370 gms)

In steep climbs, I found myself stalling on water bars that usually would be easily dealt with.  Yes I'm weak, harden up, etc...

Downhill, the wheels take forever to spin up.  They are forgiving, but require a lot of work to throw around.  The bike felt like a very heavy rigid bike with a little more cush as I took it down my favorite fast steep downhill.

I found the wheels were at their best at high speeds in small loose choppy stuff where you usually bounce off line pretty badly on a rigid, or even on suspension sometimes as the 2-4"  rocks slide and move around under you  The fat wheels were unflappable in that situation.  I guess they just float through:)

The tires also drifted nicely in loose over hard.  Super controllable.

My conclusion is that I find the wheels ponderous and not particularly advantageous for most of my trail riding situations.  In almost every trail situation I have thrown them into, they are no better than a decent 29 inch set up. They do not seem to offer any advantage over what I currently ride except in a few, isolated trail situations.

If I all I wanted was some cush, I feel a 3 inch suspension 29er outperforms fat tires easily in almost every trail situation.  A bike like this weighs in around 25-30 lbs btw.

A 37 lb suspension bike would crush the fat bike's performance in every way except simplicity for trail use.

I don't need the cush, I don't need the flotation, I don't want to deal with weight that does no enhance performance on the trail.  This bike is for sale locally because I don't want to ship it, but if you are interested let me know.



The good news is that the 100mm BB seems to be no big deal, I never noticed any difference from my usual ride. If I ever do another custom frame, it will surely have a 100mm BB and clearance for fatties.  With a spare fat wheelset, I am certain I would find a use for it occasionally.

In the mean time, I just installed this:




We'll see if it is a good use of and extra 2.7 lbs of rotating weight. 

Pugsley

First Dirt:

Let me be honest and say why I bought a Pugsley:  I am fat-curious. 

I have no doubt in my mind (especially after riding one) that these sorts of bikes simply dominate in situations requiring lots of flotation. I personally don't get in many situations where the flotation is really needed.  The question for me, then, is:  How to fat bikes perform as all around trail bikes?

I have been spinning along just fine on my 29 inch wheels for some time now and am very happy with them for overall trail riding purposes.  I am also reasonably dedicated to the rigid mountain bike as one of the more fun trail contraptions ever made.

My admittedly biased hypothesis going into this is that Fat bikes are superb niche bikes excelling in situations requiring flotation, but not necessarily the best tool for the job in other situations.

So what is the ultimate unsuspended trail bike?  29", full fat?  Fat front?  I am going to try to find out that answer for me.

I shortened the stem and installed a bash ring on the Pugs, set the psi to 8 front and rear, then hit the trails.



Climbing, the weight was pretty noticeable but not particularly annoying.  I did stall out unexpectedly on some steeper obstacles.  The only thing that annoyed me was the lack of traction for the rear endomorph on loose over hardpack. I dropped the pressure to around 4-5 and saw no significant improvement.  Most of my knobbly 29" tires have much better traction.  In this situation, flotation is a negative.  It broke loose in an interesting way in that it didn't lose traction as suddenly as a skinnier wheel, it broke a bit and gave plenty of warning so it was easy to control.

Time to hit some obstacles:


I found the weight of the wheels pulling me sometimes into lines I didn't necessarily choose, but it didn't seem to matter because whatever they pulled me into, they also usually got me out of.

The Pugsley "rides small" and I thought handled quite nicely, neither too nervous, nor overyly blah.

Climbing moves were harder for sure.  There is no denying the weight.  Downhill slow loose tech was about the same to a little easier than 29" hoops.



Bashing through rough rocky downhills was a hoot.  It is absolutely still a rigid bike, but pretty idiot proof.



I didn't pinch flat although I am sure I hit the rim a couple times since I did not raise the rear pressure from about 4psi until the end of the ride.  I wasn't going real fast though so I got away with it.  I have one small bit of Endomorph sidewall showing some fibers after this ride.

Never once did I run out of braking traction on the front.  Considering how loose it is, I was favorably impressed.

The bike acquitted itself well in rolling sections.  It was confidence inspiring, but still felt pretty slow, even downhill.



While we were riding, my son commented on a couple sandy sections.  I didn't even notice them.  Now he wants fatter tires for his bike:)

Conclusions?  None really, but a couple early thoughts forming:

1.  Most of the benefit for trail riding seems to be coming from the front.  I have a fat front on the way for the Jones, so more on that later I guess.

2.  These are very heavy, yet very capable bikes.

3.  I wonder how the tires and wheels will hold up to technical terrain/riding?  This is not putzing along through snow/sand.  A reliable source has told me that offset wheels simply will not hold up to this treatment, and if I stay in fat land, I will eventually end up on a symmetric set up.

Rock Stoke

I got a day off to ride with Mikesee. It was fun. Some photos and commentary below:

We planned to do the whole shebang at the Dells. This is not a lot of trail to cover, but it is amazingly strenuous and brutal. Essentially it is a 1mph beat down for the most part.

We got right into the thick of things a bit after dawn



I got past this section for the second time ever, but still can not clean this downhill entirely.



Climbing the spiral staircase:



Mike cleaned it second attempt which is very respectable for the feature.

A little side line move:





There are several lines down the next rock face. I have looked at the far rider's right, raised skinny line for years, but have not attempted it due to the penalty for falling to rider's right which more than I care to experience. Not a difficult move, but too heady for me. Mike thought about it:



Tried it:





Thought some more...



Tried again and nailed it:



Time to hit some difficult switchbacks, as always, STIL:

Nope:


Yep:








One of my favorite shots of the day:



Oh so close on the "Buttbreaker" photos/video can not convey its difficulty:



Rider there somewhere:











Oh so close on this one....bummer about the final turn at the end



Second try





Mike spied a new way to dismount this rock:



Another favorite image: "Upper Sideswipe"



The big roller:



Continues below horizon



Lichenroller



Doh!



Success!



Dan's Notch:



Mosquito Chasm:


In the end, we hit almost every single available trail both ways. It took nine hours total and I was pretty wrecked.

Chunk Jr.

I took little E out to the new mellow Dells light trail to see how he could do in some mildly technical terrain.  As he is growing, his strength is increasing significantly.  I had also lowered the gearing on his SS and put on some light knobbies recently which would help his climbing.

He did surprisingly well in the chunky parts, and better than fine on the climbs.  I am most pleased with how his brake control on the descents is improving.  I won't say I wasn't a little bit worried about a yard sale on some of the tech sections, but big wheels, low COG and low body weight can cover over a lot of sloppiness.

Fun was had.




First tech section....passed.





 


He went back to clean this about five times before getting it.  I had no influence on his decision to retry it, in fact I was way up the trail wondering what was happening when I turned around, came back and found him sessioning this section.




Sometimes it ain't gonna happen.



It wasn't all tech.




Time to head down and hit a few tech sections:



I'm proud of the ratchet pedaling in that one:)

Prescott Monstercross 2011

I came into the PMC this year with minimal long rides under my belt. I think I had maybe three or four rides in the three hour range in the last four months. Most of my training has simply been fun interval burst riding in the Dells which I do several hours a week, but usually only an hour at a time. I was interested to see how this would serve me on the much longer PMC course.

This year, luckily, the Milk Money was back in action because it is IMO the perfect bike for a long endurance SS ride. My nutrition plan was to eat candy. Lots of it. I just can't eat real food while exercising, and I can't survive something this long without something.

I met everyone just before 800 at Costco, and we were off promptly.

 

I faded to the back of the back to sort of "sweep" the Dells and try to help keep people on course. I learned the hard way last year that while I can stay with the race leaders in this familiar to me terrain, it is not a good idea because I suffered badly after burning all my matches in this section.

 

 (Watson Lake)

I entered the Dells last and almost immediately hit a conga line of folks on the first up. I did not think this boded well for their day.... I passed about 20 folks just cruising along, saved one guy from a wrong turn, then came upon Chad with a burped tire and non-functional pump. I loaned him my pump and was re-passed by about 5-10 riders.

I started down over-the-hill (not recommended for bikes:)) intent on cleaning all the downhill switchbacks. On the third not so hard one, I endoed, but landed gently on a boulder and continued on. I believe Chad was behind me and did a great job cleaning a few difficult tech moves on sight.
 
 (the up section of Over-The-Hill)
(Chad on the catwalk)


(unknown on the catwalk)

I stayed pretty much where I was pack wise until out of the Dells, and proceeded across town to Granite Basin at my own SS pace. I was passed by a few more faster riders, then pretty much on my own for an hour or so.
 
 (Willow Lake in the distance)
 
(unknown rider overtaking me in Pioneer Park)
 
(Granite Basin Lake)
[My original plan was to take a pic of the bike at all six lakes, but I just wanted to keep going after this, so no more pics.  Lame.]

I generally felt quite good in all the Granite Basin section, and re-grouped with a couple SS riders at the water stop. We leap-frogged across to Quartz mountain as they slowly dropped me.

Quartz was way rougher than I remembered and I was thankful for suspension, and thinking I didn't want to go down any more hills that rough because my hands and feet were getting sore.

Regrouped with the SS riders again at the White Spar water stop where they dropped me again.

Finally made it to the Spruce Road climb and had a decision to make: Clean it or walk. I had been dreading this moment the entire race, but decided to go for it, and started inching my way up the road at nearly a walking pace. Incredibly I was able to clean it. I then enjoyed a nice fully suspended ride down Smith Ravine (walked all the short ups) and 305. In the process, I loaned my pump out again and passed six or so more riders in the process of re-installing wheels after repairing flats. I know it's not sporting, but I really turned on the burners when I caught those folks. I was not getting passed on my home trails going mostly downhill! As it was, seven riders came in within 5 minutes of me.

I was delighted to see everyone at Costco, but bummed to hear about Dan's DNF. I am really thrilled with all the finishes and I am in awe of Scott's amazing time, as well as the tenacity of those folks who were out there for much longer than me!

I ate about 1000 KCal in Snickers, Kit Kats, and Mike & Ikes and didn't feel so good for a while. It did the job though because I never bonked. I went home with an intense craving for chicken soup:) The next day I told my wife to not let me do this again next year, but a week later, I am now thinking to myself....maybe I will.

For me, this year's ride went about as well as it possibly could go for me.  I felt generally well, and had zero mechanicals.  Realistically I will never achieve a faster time without a lot more training, and I am simply not motivated to do that sort of thing.  I am thankful to be generally fit enough right now to finish this thing and survive.

Times:
2011 8:29
2010 9:13
2009 7:40 (no Dells)